alpha roll

[FranMan]

If a five month old rotty bit you hard enough to make you bleed would you alpha roll him?

[judgemenot]

Probably not. Im thinking it was probably still in play and not too much in a malicious way. If he was nipping Id let hip grip my hand and then shove it down his throat until he gags a little. say NONONONONO loud and keep doing it to a point your trying to get him to do it again. He wont want to anymore. I teach pups and big dogs this if they are going to be house pets.

[FranMan]

Here is the post. They started to piss me off so I started to mess with them

http://www.rottweiler.net/forums/puppy-development/72022-my-5-month-old-broke-skin.html

[Birddog]

I'm out classed!!!!
I never knew that alpha roll was what I was doing with Pig and Ellie when they got aggressive... Pig tried that crap with me when he was about 6-7 months old and I rolled his ass quick... Ellie (same age) just got submissive to anyone, happily I might add, and Pig now feels he's second in command... Now if I could put Mora, Tank and Ernie in their place....

[FranMan]

They broke off the posts to a new thread.....


http://www.rottweiler.net/forums/forum-news-support-comments-suggestions-testing/72109-deleting-posts.html

[FranMan]

Great stuff. The people on the rottweiler.net site kill me. What a bunch of nazi's over there. I stated many times I don't waste my time to reply with my point because they just delete them. If the posts isn't what they (so called doggy do gooders) want to push or if they aren't winning the argument they just delete your posts so that people only see their side of the story. Since no one debates it is must be right, right? Well I finally typed up my reply after 5 pages of avoiding the bullshit. What happens, "ah shit he has valid points and zorrloser is losing deabte. What can we do. DELETE DELETE."



Since I typed it all up and don't feel losing the time I spent to write it I'll post it here. I can deal with the dickheads on sites like that but I can't stand when they delete posts that go against their cause.







Here was my post before the thread was deleted.





Actually, that is incorrect. You responded to Moondog's response and brought up Ed first; I just suggested you take a closer look at his site more. It's on page one, so you need to keep up.

I guess you missed my post say this thread was split off another thread.

http://www.rottweiler.net/forums/768222-post16.html

That was post I was replying to.


You jumped in this thread with your “FranMan: No disrespect meant to you, but you should study Ed's site more closely.” Which you were trying to get my to say “why?” so you could inform that Ed doesn’t recommend the roll. When I said “Why because he says not to alpha roll?” you back pedaled with some crap about his site having “some basic good principles” which have nothing to do with the topic of alpha rolling. You ended your post with no disrespect meant crap. Which as we have seen by your many post that you really are trying to start a fight. Which is the reason you hunted down my website, which isn’t very old and only has a handful of invited (not you) members, to try to dig up some more ammo to try to make me look bad.

Since we never finished up the topic of Ed and alpha rolling. Lets finish that one up because you are wrong on Ed’s opinion. If you took your advise and look around his site Ed states not to alpha roll with out a muzzle. As I said before yes an alpha roll can be dangerous with aggressive full grown dogs. Ed as a trainer selling videos on training he can’t tell people to do stuff that is dangerous to some people because he’ll get sued. In the case of the roll I haven’t seen where he state that does work or that it is BS because of the wolf pack studies… If you listen to one of his latest podcast he talks about the roll and you can more insight on his real opinion. He also talks about a guy that does it on tv all the time. I am sure he is talking about the dog whisper, which has the disclaimers popping up right before he does it. You also missed post saying my dog wouldn’t have gotten to the point of biting me and would have been pinch collar corrected the first time he growled at me.

Since you are so good with the old searches I am sure you can figure out the dog in my signature picture. It is far easier then find my site.

[FranMan]

http://www.leerburg.com/podcasts/theoryofcorrections.mp3

3/4 of the way through he talks about growling/biting dogs.

[Birddog]

Wife says I did this to Queenie(the rot down the street) when she took a hunk out of my arm last year. I don't remember personally but she drops down and gets on her back whenever I see her now...

[judgemenot]

Here is my take on the "alpha roll" and how is was so misconstued. First, have you ever walked over to your pet while it was laying down and it rolled over with trust and didnity, to give you its stomache to rub? That is really what your looking for as tha alpha of the pack. If as you got close the dog got to its feet then its might tell you something about how you deal with things in the pack. Also you are probably not able to touch certain areas on the dog. Most stuff like this is truly your dog not sure it trusts you or that it is getting dominance on you.
How many time is C milan going to get bit doing this stupid stuff for the public to realize its not safe. Not to mention, (if you train with me you know Im not a purly positive trainer so dont think Ive gone soft or anything) the fact that in making a dog give you its back and holding it there your not earning trust, your taking it. Yes after a while you can submit a dog this way and make progress. But wouldnt you rather get it from taking the time in Obedience and timely correction/praise.
I just worked with this BADASS Dutch Shep of an officers that was redirecting on him when he called the dog off a bite. He was always trying to get the upperhand. Dog wont give it stomache, handler cant touch feet, several things a professional HAS to be able to do to get a proper health check done on the dog.
Kevin you know this dog too. he was out here last time we worked. What we did is did minor OB with the dog with heavy heavy praise and affection after doing it right. Then an actual kneel down and love the dog up session. The dog was very weary at first but after a few times it really started trying to get love from the handler. We actually got the dog all the way over to its side and was able to give it a tone of stimulation that was never able before!
What we will do is continue like this for a couple weeks until the dog is easily "rolled" and then start doing less "softer" OB, and really get the dog to want that attention. This will NOT get the dog softer at his job. It will just trust daddy alot more and want to please him. Believe me anyone else if not going to be able to get close to this dog! haha.

[judgemenot]

Oh and this really is alot different with a 5 year old dog than a 5 month old pup. The pup is easy to push over...Wana try a dutch Shep with several street bites? Cmon Ceasar give it a try...whisper this!

[FranMan]

The question was more if the dog just bit you, would you roll him right then. Not really as a way of training a grown handler aggressive dog. If you read this link
http://realk9s.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46
it says

"Flight Instinct Period 4 to 8 Months:

There is a time during this period, lasting two to four weeks, when the pup will test his wings. He won't come when called, in fact will run away. Just keep pup on a leash until this passes."

IMO that means the dog learned that biting you will fly and he gets what he wants. I probably wouldn't roll the dog but give him a nice reminder of the pinch collar. The thread was on another site and owner didn't have any form of correcting the dog. If that was the case for me I would have owned him. Of course the owner was a tard and really didn't need to be owning a dog anyways.

[judgemenot]

lol! right right. too funny.